# June4D1\_mtg\_PlanninganWater

[00:00:00] Then at the end, they'll ask a question

[00:00:27] department, I currently work, ~~uh,~~ with council members and appreciate Council Member Kimbrough, ~~um,~~ making time for us this evening. A lot of Council Lady Kimbrough's community meetings are on the same night as the planning commission, and it makes it really hard for our staff to come out 'cause we have to be there.

[00:00:42] ~~Um, so~~ I really appreciate Council Member Kimbrough for making time for us this evening and to all of you for coming out. ~~Um,~~ Council Lady Kimbrough had a couple of questions. In particular, I think a lot of folks had some interest in, ~~um,~~ rural policy areas, which y- which you do have a lot of rural policy areas.

[00:00:58] ~~Um, and~~ I would overall [00:01:00] say that, ~~uh,~~ Metro, ~~um,~~ our community plans team is, ~~um,~~ frequent... ~~You know, ~~if someone wants to change a policy, it goes through a process where we'll have staff that will come out to a meeting and hear your feedback about changing that policy. There are a couple of things here and there that are coming up.

[00:01:15] I think Council Member Kimbrough, at your next community meeting, there's one little area along White's Creek Pike where someone is wanting to do a policy amendment. But that always has a very-- a public process where we, ~~um,~~ send out notice, ~~um,~~ and our staff come and say, "This many people came, and this is what their feedback was."

[00:01:31] ~~So, um,~~ other than that, I'm not aware of any changes to policy in your area. However- Le- let me just say this since you mentioned that- Yes ... 'cause people will be like, ~~"Well,~~ I haven't heard that." Yeah. They have not confirmed a date yet. ~~I, I~~ sent it, ~~sent the email.~~ Nobody's gotten back. But once that date is confirmed, then I'll send it out to those teachers.

[00:01:48] ~~I have to, I have to~~ address everything. Yeah. No, ~~they're, they're~~ working with, ~~uh,~~ Council Lady Kimbrough to get all that- ~~Um, so that~~ overall for rural policy areas, ~~um,~~ generally speaking, not a lot has changed. We, as a city, have been looking at a lot of, ~~um,~~ ways of [00:02:00] better having new housing fit in better, including for just regular building permits.

[00:02:05] We have changed the, ~~um,~~ how high, ~~you know, ~~the dimensions of what you can build to fit in a little bit better with houses. So that's for all building permits. We've also created some new zoning districts that are of a multifamily type. We have multifamily zoning today, but we've created some new, ~~uh,~~ multifamily zoning districts that have-- also have a little bit better design guidance to them.

[00:02:27] ~~So, ~~but none of those new zoning districts are applicable to rural policy areas. So having said... Stand. Okay, I'll try that. ~~So, um, so~~ w-we have done some zoning things overall those really don't apply to rural policy areas, so nothing has changed there. ~~Um, however,~~ I wanted to take this opportunity to introduce my colleague, ~~uh,~~ Harriet, who is, ~~um,~~ part of our planning department.

[00:02:52] ~~Uh,~~ most people really think of or know the planning department because there's a rezoning, and I work very heavily on that side. But we also [00:03:00] have lots of other planning staff who help us do, ~~um,~~ conservation. Historic preservation is now part of our planning department, ~~um,~~ conservation of n- of natural resources or community de-design.

[00:03:11] And I wanted to give Harriet an opportunity to let you know about some of the things that we're, ~~uh,~~ working on in terms of e-ecological ~~and, and~~ environmental preservation. So I'll turn it over to Harriet. Thanks, Brett, and thank you, Councilor Hembrough, for inviting me to come tonight. ~~Uh,~~ my name is Harriet Brooks.

[00:03:29] I'm a landscape architect and an urban designer, and I sit within the design studio of the planning department. ~~Um,~~ most of the work that ~~the, the~~ design studio does is within the downtown area. We're doing lots of the work on the East Bank and things like that. But I'm really excited, ~~um, this, this~~ spring we've launched a new countywide environmental planning study, and it's called the Ecological Conservation Strategy.

[00:03:58] ~~Um, but that's really just kind of a, a~~ fancy term [00:04:00] for looking at the natural resources that we have in Davidson County, understanding the effects of the really rapid growth that we've had over the past few years, and trying to better understand and better-- and develop better strategies for how we ~~can, can~~ conserve and preserve our natural features, ~~um,~~ and also our natural systems that are really important to the resiliency of the county and sustainability, ~~um,~~ from an environmental perspective.

[00:04:32] So we have hired a consultant team, ~~um,~~ and there's ~~a, a~~ consultant group out of Baltimore called Biohabitats that is leading the effort, but they have, ~~um,~~ Pillars Development, and Cumberland River Compact, and Beaumont Strategies who are all local firms that are working with them. ~~The, the~~ study is going to take about eighteen months.

[00:04:56] We started... We really kicked it off in April, [00:05:00] so we're just ~~kind of ~~at the beginning phase of it. But they're-- the first part of it is ~~the, the~~ planners ~~and, and~~ designers are really looking at understanding better the effects of the growth and the growth patterns that we've had in the past five years.

[00:05:16] Our urban tree canopy assessment, as you, ~~you~~ might be aware, came out last year, but the data that was used for it was from twenty twenty-one. And so we've had a lot of change even since twenty twenty-one. ~~Um, and then of course,~~ I'm sure many of you were affected by Winter Storm Fern too, and the amount of tree loss that we've seen with that.

[00:05:37] And so there's a desire ~~to, to~~ really understand, ~~um- in a, ~~in a more objective fashion, the effects of the growth. We hear from a lot of people every day in our planning work that, ~~you know, ~~people are excited about the growth and the opportunity that Nashville has seen, but people are also concerned about a loss of authenticity [00:06:00] and a loss of identity and sense of place.

[00:06:02] And some people feel that they don't recognize the neighborhoods that they've grown up in. And ~~so, um,~~ that's something that we take very seriously. ~~Um,~~ our department sees it as intrinsically tied to the land, the landscape, and the natural features. And so that's why we're taking a look at that as part of this project.

[00:06:21] We will have, ~~uh,~~ an extensive community engagement aspect to this, especially in your part of the county. So we-- With-- Although the county-- ~~Uh, the...~~ Sorry. Although the study is looking at the entire county and all of ~~the, the~~ systems within the county, we're going to be doing ~~a, ~~a deep dive focus on the Highland Rim Forest.

[00:06:44] And ~~so, um,~~ that part of the study will be kicking off probably early fall, and, ~~um,~~ we will be really, ~~um,~~ diving into, ~~um,~~ understanding, ~~um,~~ understanding better ~~the, the~~ Highland Rim Forest as a resource for our county and looking for [00:07:00] ways that we can really increase conservation and preservation of that important natural f- natural resource At the same time balancing, ~~um,~~ people's, ~~you know, ~~desire for growth and not wanting, ~~um, you know, ~~their properties to necessarily be affected by that.

[00:07:17] ~~Um,~~ in addition to the Highland Rim Forest, we'll also be looking at the urban Cumberland River. That'll be another aspect of it and trying to, ~~um,~~ think about how we can reorient our river towards downtown. The recommendations of the study should be coming out next fall, so fall of twenty twenty-seven. And, ~~uh,~~ that's really about it.

[00:07:40] ~~Um,~~ the recommendations will be incorporated into policy updates, planning updates. ~~Um,~~ we will also be looking at, ~~um,~~ new strategies of how we can improve programs like conservation easements. We're working with the Land Trust for Tennessee, TennGreen, and some other [00:08:00] organizations trying to understand how we can make those processes more appealing.

[00:08:04] We'll also be looking at things like transfer of development rights, ~~um,~~ and maybe how we can start to combine some tools for historic preservation and environmental conservation together. ~~Um, so it'll-- Um,~~ the results are meant to be a sort of toolbox of different types of recommendations, different approaches that we can take.

[00:08:25] And, ~~um,~~ I'll be looking forward to seeing as many of you as possible at an upcoming meeting. And then also, ~~um,~~ we will be posting all of the recommendations as we move through it, and we will be asking for everyone's feedback to better understand, ~~you know, ~~if these are meeting the goals and objectives that the community has, ~~um,~~ for the county.

[00:08:49] Yes, and the website is nashville.gov/ecsplan. And [00:09:00] again, my name is Harriet Brooks. I'm happy for anyone to contact me, come talk to me. My email address is harriet.brooks@nashville.gov. I'll also hang out for a little while if anyone, ~~um,~~ has any questions. Thank you. Yes? I have a quick question. Sure.

[00:09:22] ~~The, the, uh,~~ Highland Rim Forest, I know it goes ~~all, all~~ across the, ~~um,~~ northwest end of the county. But for some reason, when it gets to Joelton, it just jumps Joelton and goes on into Robertson County. Can you find out-- I have asked this question before, and I've never gotten an answer. Can you find out why it jumps Joelton and ignores it, and it moves on into Robertson County?

[00:09:51] So when you start your study, and if we're gonna be part of the focus of the study, what happens when we have developments that try to put an [00:10:00] unprecedented amount of development in an area that would be a part of your study? How is planning handling managing that when it does not fit in with what your study may actually...

[00:10:10] 'Cause it's kinda ~~like ~~if it happens, your study won't mean anything. So how are y'all navigating that? ~~Right. ~~And, ~~um,~~ you make a great point. Unfortunately, we have no, ~~you know, ~~power to enforce anything until the recommendations are made and the regulations are set. ~~You know, ~~some of the recommen-recomm-recommendations we might be making are changes to the zoning code that will have to be approved by Metro Council, but we wouldn't be able to hold anyone to that until it is approved by council

[00:10:54] It, ~~it~~ may depend. So our community plan, ~~um,~~ is a planning for growth as well as conservation. And [00:11:00] our community plan has areas that the community largely agreed were intended for growth and development. And so we-- So it, ~~it~~ might depend on the specific location that we're talking about. ~~Um,~~ because some areas, let's say ~~kind of ~~by here, ~~um,~~ are or were envisioned for a lot of growth and development because Oaksville High was a major, ~~um,~~ a major road and a major corridor.

[00:11:21] But then as you get a little bit further out, ~~uh,~~ the policy calls for more preservation. So it might depend on the location specifically. But from between here and kind of downtown is an area

[00:11:36] If you have a question, please wait on the mic-- for the microphone so everybody can hear the question. Are there any more questions? ~~Uh,~~ okay then. I need you all to come back up front[00:12:00] 

[00:12:17] Sure. Just, ~~uh, uh,~~ the question is how does the planning department, ~~um,~~ evaluate Nashville Next, which had ~~a lot of, a lot of~~ community input and a lot of different recommendations. The planning commission, ~~uh,~~ when they make a zoning decision or a policy amendment decision, are required to base that on Nashville Next.

[00:12:33] ~~Um, and~~ I would say that it informs lots of, ~~uh,~~ decisions that we've made. As I was, ~~uh,~~ mentioning earlier, there are some parts of the county that were identified through that community engagement as being high growth areas, and there is a lot of growth happening in those areas, and that meets policy for that area.

[00:12:49] But there might be other areas where, ~~you know, ~~more maintenance was desired. You can still tear down a house and build another house, but maybe not, ~~you know, ~~multiples just events. So we look at-- [00:13:00] I think a lot of people are pretty used to rezoning applications, ~~um,~~ and the way that those are evaluated.

[00:13:06] Harriet and her team, ~~uh,~~ are doing a lot of ~~really, really~~ good work about so many of the other recommendations. A lot of people, like I said, ~~really, really~~ think of planning in terms of rezoning or a subdivision, and that's a lot of our bread and butter work. But Harriet and her team and some of our other teams really are working very strongly, ~~uh, to, ~~to try to implement some of those pro-- especially environmental preservation or place making, or how do you build a community and how do you design a community.

[00:13:31] And Harriet and her team ~~are, are~~ doing a lot of that work. And this, ~~uh,~~ ECS, Ecological Conservation Strategy, ~~um, is, is~~ one of those things ~~we're, ~~we're trying to get to, ~~uh,~~ because there were so many recommendations and many of them we haven't acted upon, ~~um, we're, we're~~ trying to do better with that.

[00:13:44] Anything to add? I can add. Just briefly. ~~Um,~~ Nashville Next, so the recommendations that will come out of the study will not be in conflict with Nashville Next. Nashville Next is just a little vague when it comes to, ~~um,~~ how it [00:14:00] approaches, ~~um,~~ environmental systems. And ~~so, like, it, it~~ just has overall conservation policy, and that could be floodplain, it could be a steep slope.

[00:14:07] ~~And, and~~ so with this, we are trying to be more nuanced in understanding what are appropriate responses depending on the type ~~of, of~~ landscape, the type of natural features that might be in a particular area.

[00:14:30] Loud. Can you hear me? Yeah. Okay, thank you. ~~So, uh,~~ first, thank you for coming. Thank you. It's exciting ~~to, to~~ hear about what's going on, especially where your neck of the woods, ~~uh,~~ we talk to you. But let's talk specifics if we might Because there is a site down Ashland City Avenue where Raleigh Parkway intersects.

[00:14:51] ~~Mm-hmm. ~~We had discussions about this ~~in, in~~ meetings here. And in the nineteen-nineties, a cabinet maker came [00:15:00] and said he wanted, with his sons, to be able to build a business there. And so the planning staff and commission listened to that and thought, "Okay, that makes s-sense. We will give it to industrial zoning."

[00:15:16] Cabinet maker, cabinet shop. Now, we have someone who's bought this land and wants to put in a corporate headquarters. ~~Mm-hmm. ~~A long ways from a cabinet maker and cabinet shop. So we're wondering, how does something like this happen? ~~Uh,~~ especially in light of Nashville Next, because this is right in Nashville Next green space.

[00:15:41] ~~Right. ~~So I'm just really curious about this. I'm familiar with that property. ~~Um, I was- ... um, uh,~~ serving as the council representative on the Planning Commission when we had, ~~uh,~~ one application for that site, which the commission recommended disapproval of, and then, ~~um,~~ the rezoning did not move forward at that time.

[00:15:57] ~~Um,~~ one of the things about [00:16:00] N-Nashville Next from a policy perspective is that policy is a future vision. So it's a vision of what should the future be like. ~~Um,~~ but if you have zoning that was given to you by Metro Council at some point in the past, that zoning doesn't always align with what that future policy is, but you still have a legal right to build ~~or, or~~ use that property according to that zoning ~~that's, that's~~ in place.

[00:16:24] And so that's why sometimes there's ~~what, what~~ we call legacy zoning, but it's like it's from back in the day, ~~um,~~ before the community plan was updated, before there even was a rural policy. ~~Um,~~ sometimes ~~you, you~~ have ~~the, the~~ zoning, properties that have that zoning, and they are entitled to build or use those properties according to that zoning that they were given by the legislative body.

[00:16:44] ~~Um,~~ if we were to-- The only time the Planning Commission typically would weigh in on it is if they were going to-- seeking to rezone the property, we would review that against policy. In some cases, ~~uh,~~ as well, if there is a [00:17:00] subdivision, then sometimes we can review the subdivision to make sure that ~~it, it~~ meets policy.

[00:17:04] We have in the... ~~And, and~~ I know this is industrial, so that wouldn't apply. But sometimes ~~even in, even in, um,~~ sometimes, ~~um-~~ Sometimes you have a rural policy, but it has suburban zoning. There's a lot of that, and that's led to a lot of conflict in some of your areas. Again, people have a right to, ~~to~~ develop ~~under that, under that.~~

[00:17:19] However, when it comes to subdividing property, our subdivision regulations in a rural policy are much better today than they were in the past because we've been trying to keep making it better. And I think that's one of the things that Harry and her team ~~will, will~~ look and say, "What else do we need to deal with?"

[00:17:33] But ~~our, our~~ subdivision regulations in rural policy are, even if it's got a suburban base zoning, ~~um,~~ are much better today than they were in the past. But for the-- like the property that you mentioned, if they have industrial zoning law to use them for whatever ~~is, is~~ approved in that specific district

[00:17:52] And it's frustrating. ~~I, I, I, I~~ can imagine. ~~But, but~~ for that one in particular... Now, ~~um,~~ one of some ti-- one of the things about it as well is that, ~~uh,~~ and Mr. [00:18:00] Honeysucker might be the best one to answer some of these questions. Sometimes, ~~um,~~ you'll have a property that, ~~um,~~ may or may not have sewer access, and that's not typically something that the planning department would review.

[00:18:12] But, ~~um,~~ if a property has, ~~um,~~ infrastructure to support that use, they would have to have infrastructure to support that use before they can get a building permit. And if they don't have that infrastructure, ~~then,~~ then that may be an issue. But Mr. Honeysucker is best, best qualified to answer things about the plumbing, 'cause ~~I'm not, ~~I'm not a plumber.

[00:18:31] ~~So, ~~yeah. That's a very relevant question, and looking forward to hearing the answer about that because m-my understanding is that they have, ~~uh,~~ asked for a sewer availability study. They've applied for seven hundred and forty-five feet ~~of, ~~of plumbing to go across Riley, which has been... Riley has just-- ~~Uh, ~~since I moved here in two thousand and nine, it always ~~was, ~~was ~~sort of ~~relayed to me like the city ~~sort of ~~ends at Riley.

[00:18:53] Riley has always been ~~sort of ~~the development boundary, ~~um,~~ and that seems to be [00:19:00] shifting somewhat. And with ~~the, ~~the potential ~~of, ~~of, of sewer coming across Riley, that really portends a lot of possible issues down the line. ~~I wanna, ~~I wanna talk about what's in, ~~um,~~ the T2 Community, ~~uh,~~ Character Manual. It says, "In the absence of acceptable development proposals, sites that contain existing uses and/or zoning that are inconsistent with the policy and are no longer viable should be rezoned to more compatible with the ex- applicable policy."

[00:19:30] That seems to me to say that when you have these discrepancies in zoning, that ~~the, the, the~~ policy says that we should rezone to conform to the policy

[00:19:41] ~~The, the~~ community care commandment would often-- would hope that, ~~uh,~~ things would move in a direction of being more compliant with policy in the future. However, the rezoning would still have to be initiated by a property owner, and they may not be- Yeah. A property owner may not be interested in initiating that to lose their entitlements, or it could be initiated [00:20:00] by a council member.

[00:20:01] However, ~~um, you know, ~~it, ~~it~~ would be wise or well to have the property owner on board. ~~I, I~~ think in the... Yeah, ~~it's, it's~~ best to have the property owner on board. It's not required. But when there is a public hearing, ~~um,~~ the property owner definitely has an opportunity to present their case to the planning commission and the council as a whole.

[00:20:22] And, ~~um,~~ I think, ~~you know, that ~~that's where some dispute happens. But the-- but having a policy in place does not, ~~like,~~ automatically negate the zoning. ~~Here, here's kind of ~~what's been happening. When there have been a number of very large projects that have come forward, one was the Zeal church that wanted to go behind there, and they went through the BZA.

[00:20:41] And it almost went through the BZA and was allowed to be done, which is totally inconsistent with policy and just wouldn't have been approved if it would have been ~~a, a~~ commercial building. But they, ~~you know, ~~were pushing the Ariula angle to get the special exception. How... ~~And, and~~ so situations ~~like, like~~ Zeal ~~and, and~~ now Best Brands, [00:21:00] you have these two major things that one almost happened, one is-- appears to be happening, that are inconsistent with the policy.

[00:21:08] And so it sure begs the question, what's the point of policy if you can still allow these things to happen? And where are the checkpoints along the way that we can, as citizens, ensure that, ~~that~~ we have an agreed-upon policy, that we're following the policy? I'll tackle the church use one first. ~~So, um,~~ in ~~our zoning code, ~~our ~~zoning code,~~ including all residential zoning as well as all the other...

[00:21:33] ~~I mean, ~~churches are ~~kind of ~~allowed everywhere in our zoning code, more or less. ~~Um,~~ and so there may be conditions that are put on that. ~~Um,~~ but in addition to metro zone laws, ~~as, as~~ you mentioned, there are sometimes state and federal protections for religious uses. ~~Um,~~ and ~~so, uh,~~ our rural policy would not say you can't have a church.

[00:21:48] ~~Um,~~ and ~~it--~~ So to that extent, in terms of would it be in violation of policy to have a church ~~or~~ even a large church, probably not. ~~Um,~~ but that, ~~um,~~ [00:22:00] sometime-- in some zoning districts, ~~you have~~ to have a We call it a special exception, ~~uh,~~ but it-- special exception has, ~~uh, and~~ our zoning code actually has a list of standards that ~~you have~~ to meet, ~~um, and~~ they go to ~~the, ~~the Board of ~~Zoning~~ Appeals.

[00:22:11] ~~The~~ Board of Zoning Appeals for special exceptions, ~~the planning~~ department will send a recommendation, but the ~~Board of~~ Z-Zoning Appeals is under no obligation to follow our recommendation. ~~Um, ~~they can-- they sometimes just take it as information. So keep that ~~i-uh, ~~in mind. But that's for the, ~~um,~~ for the religious use.

[00:22:11] ~~Mm-hmm. Um, ~~for the commercial use, again, like ~~if, ~~if someone is wanting to do a commercial use in legacy zoning from the past, ~~um,~~ the codes department basically has to issue them a permit if they find that it meets their zoning, regardless of the policy. It's just that ~~if, ~~if a policy were-- if a rezoning were to be sought, we would-- the

[00:22:59] planning [00:23:00] department would review it against, like you said, policy. ~~Uh, ~~one more question about the IRLA. My understanding is ~~that ~~that was-- that legislation is to prevent discrimination. That is very different than giving a blank check to just allow anything to happen. So how do you-- what's the Occam's razor for how do we dis-distinguish between, ~~like,~~ just giving a blank check, you can call yourself a church, you can build anything because you're a church, and we're afraid of a lawsuit versus, ~~like,~~ the very real, like...

[00:23:26] ~~I, ~~I don't know, it just seems like a- Yeah, there are-- ~~there's, ~~there's that. ~~Um, ~~there are also-- There's also something called Right to Farm Act, ~~uh,~~ which allows lots of uses to be... People come with very clever, ~~um,~~ ways of saying, "This is related to my farm," which is... But those interpretations are made by the zoning administrator.

[00:23:46] ~~Uh, ~~in this case, Joey Hargis would make an interpretation That for planning board, we would review a rezoning or a subdivision, but that's ~~kind of ~~where our authority ends.[00:24:00] 

[00:24:05] And even then, ~~uh, well, ~~we do make a decision ~~about, ~~about subdivisions. For rezonings, it's just a recommendation to council, and they can take that information, ~~uh,~~ as, as much as they want. But sorry about that. Yes, sir. Yeah. ~~Uh, ~~my question is this area there. Under this environmental study, will they be conservation property today removed and, ~~uh,~~ sold?

[00:24:31] Yeah. This is a short answer. It was.

[00:24:41] Busily, busily taking notes on all my comments I'm gonna make. ~~Uh, ~~thank y'all. Thank you, Councilman. Thank you, Premier. I'm really excited, ~~um,~~ about the ECS. And not to jump back to the tax question since Vivian has left, but watching the differentiation between the services district narrow, ~~um,~~ leads to maybe some thoughts on ~~the, ~~[00:25:00] the...

[00:25:00] I always get them reversed. I somehow say urban when ~~I mean ~~general. But somehow that the general services district is paying more and not-- but we're not seeing any changes in the services ~~that ~~that district receives. ~~Uh, I, ~~I'm, I'm-- ~~I mean, I'm, ~~I'm a believer in public services and good schools, ~~you know, ~~all that kind of stuff, so ~~I'm not, ~~I'm not a tax cheat, ~~uh,~~ or cheap.

[00:25:17] ~~Um, ~~it just seems like when you start with those two districts being about twenty percent apart and they end up being less than two percent apart, but there's not any changes in the services delivered ~~or, ~~or an explanation of what's going on, ~~um,~~ you do feel like maybe the general services is subsidizing the urban services, which is understandable given the budget considerations, but I think maybe ~~that ~~that should be, ~~uh,~~ con-- addressed.

[00:25:37] ~~Um, ~~and that's a council mayoral question. What I'm getting to on the planning question of that is that I do feel like that there are, ~~um,~~ there are planning decisions that hinge upon tax district. ~~So, like, ~~let's say, ~~uh,~~ day dues or something like ~~that ~~that's contingent upon whether a property is in one of those districts.

[00:25:54] If those districts are dissolving, if that's the writing on the wall, that there's gonna be a tax rate for the county, [00:26:00] everybody gets streetlights and trash service, but everybody pays the same rate, ~~um, where, ~~where do those distinctions go? ~~Um, ~~and I think that ties into the ECS. That ties into previous conversations about the types of boundaries and the different areas that we have in the area.

[00:26:12] What is rural? What is urban? What does a d- what is a district as diverse as D One would like to see where we all stay together on the same raft? ~~Um- ~~I have to look at my notes 'cause I ran out of steam. ~~Um, ~~and that, that type of boundary ~~is not a, ~~is not a... ~~I, ~~I, I fee- I feel like it immediately gets perceived ~~and, ~~and ~~it, ~~it gets addressed in the heart of kind of nimbyism, where there's the sense that ~~it's not, ~~it's not so much about no, it's about the type.

[00:26:33] It's about appropriateness and the smart growth that happens in these areas, and whether you're looking at patterns that match the rural character. And in policy, to go back to policy, we look at the rural policies, I think in all of Nashville Next, the word permanent exists maybe eleven times, and I think nine of them are in the rural policies.

[00:26:51] ~~Like, ~~there's just not, there's ~~not, ~~not a lot of indication of, ~~uh... ~~There's a ton of indication that the folks that are in those areas were saying, ~~"This is, ~~this is a resource, our community [00:27:00] resource to provide for our neighbors and for Nashville." ~~Uh, ~~when you come to things like the Highland Rim Forest, whether it's, ~~um,~~ stormwater reduction, whether it's heat island, ~~uh,~~ mitigation, ~~uh,~~ tho-those kind of considerations then also tie into someone's got a conservation easement on their parcel.

[00:27:14] They're providing a benefit to themselves and their neighbors, but they're facing a tax rate, ~~uh,~~ no consideration to that of the tax rate, that they are voluntarily not developing that land, that there are benefits to everybody that crosses the parcel lines. ~~Um, ~~again, just really excited, grateful for you all to be here.

[00:27:29] Back to the rezonings where we have these discrepancies of policy and zoning. ~~Um, ~~some of these zonings are, ~~you know, ~~not long after the consolidation of city county. So some of these zonings go back to, ~~like,~~ '74. We've had forty years of community plan work where they have maybe diverged. ~~Uh, ~~maybe there's a mindset that taking a check from ~~a, ~~a spec track type builder was the only way out of some of these farms for folks that were cash poor.

[00:27:51] ~~Um, ~~I think that's evolved. That's evolved with the sense of where people are moving to Nashville, what they would like to see. ~~Um, uh, ~~so taking that into consideration and that maybe a recommendation [00:28:00] coming from the ECS is, ~~uh,~~ is addressing zoning. ~~Um, ~~even if it's bulk zonings, if it's opt-out zoning so that ~~you're not, ~~you're not running into, I'm not forcing anybody to lose entitlements.

[00:28:09] ~~Um, ~~but ~~you see ~~large rezonings happening, whether it was District Three or whether it was, ~~um,~~ Pennington Bend. So maybe there's something that could be come out as a recommendation of that. I know I've talked with Councilwoman Kimber about that possibility. ~~Um, ~~coordination of Metro Water. ~~Like, ~~there's decisions on sewer extensions.

[00:28:25] If there's a right hand not knowing what the left hand is doing, but there's recommendations coming out of the ECS or out of Nashville Next, it seems to me that places like BZA and Metro Water, ~~um,~~ should be plugged into those as far as, ~~uh,~~ what's the overall plan for this area ins- instead of a case-by-case incremental loss, ~~uh,~~ through that kind of creep Thanks.

[00:28:47] ~~Really, ~~really appreciate you guys coming and sharing this. ~~I, ~~I just can't contain my excitement about DCS,

[00:28:53] so thank you all. ~~Well, ~~that's great. Yeah. ~~Um, ~~yeah. Thank you. ~~Um, uh, ~~like I said, for sewer extensions, I will definitely need to rely upon the, ~~uh,~~ wisdom and experience of Mr. [00:29:00] Honeysucker, ~~uh,~~ about that. But again, planning-- the planning department typically, ~~uh,~~ does not, ~~um,~~ um, does not review a sewer, ~~um,~~ un-unless like someone is doing, ~~um,~~ a s- what's called a specific plan zoning ~~that, ~~that also does that, and ~~then we, ~~then we would review it with ~~the, ~~the other agencies.

[00:29:16] But for a lot of things that are happening in the existing zoning, we would not

[00:29:26] Thank you. Any other questions for planning before, ~~uh,~~ Mr. Honeysucker comes and speaks on water? Oh, I'm sorry. It's okay

[00:29:39] You may have spoken about this, but I'm not sure you did. There is a survey out now online. Did you speak to that? That is, ~~uh,~~ first it was a June sixth deadline for the public to put in their input, and then now I think it's June twelfth. So can you let everyone know about the [00:30:00] survey? And then also- I didn't plant her, I promise.

[00:30:02] ~~Right. ~~Did you do that? No, I said I didn't plant you, but thank you for the reminder. ~~Um- ~~Oh, and then there's-- And then my next question would be is, will there be other opportunities? It says deadline, and then did we all lose ~~the, ~~the opportunity? Thank you. Absolutely not. Yes. Thank you so much for that reminder.

[00:30:21] ~~So, um, ~~yes, we have an online survey right now. ~~Um, ~~she is correct. ~~Um, ~~it goes until June... It'll be open until June twelfth. This first survey is very, ~~um... It, ~~it's very broad. It's asking general questions like where do you go in Nashville to be in nature? ~~Um, ~~what do you think is important to conserve or preserve within the county?

[00:30:46] ~~Um, ~~what are concerns that you have around, ~~um,~~ either growth and development or around, ~~um,~~ changes that you have been seeing? The survey takes less than five minutes to complete. It's very... I think it's only [00:31:00] six questions. It's very brief. ~~Um, ~~and then you can also choose, ~~um,~~ to include your email address so that we can keep you updated, ~~um,~~ as we move forward through the process.

[00:31:11] Again, the website is nashville.gov/ecsplan. ~~Um, ~~and yes, please fill out the survey. Please, ~~um,~~ share it with your friends. ~~Um, ~~we-- we're trying to get as many people as possible to fill it out just so we ~~sort of ~~understand as part of, ~~um,~~ this initial research phase of the project, just how people are feeling, ~~um,~~ the places that are important to you, what's, ~~you know, ~~what's critical and where should we, ~~um,~~ be focusing in terms of priorities as we move forward on this project.

[00:31:44] And there will be many more points of engagement. We will have community meetings. We are, ~~um,~~ attending pop-up events at various parks. ~~Um, ~~some of that will probably-- there'll probably be a little bit of a lull over the [00:32:00] summer, ~~um,~~ as our team dives deep into their analysis. And then as we start ramping up the Highland Rim Forest work in the fall, we'll be more active again in terms of, ~~um,~~ attending events.

[00:32:14] And we're happy to come talk to anyone. In the meantime, feel free to reach out. ~~Um, ~~we'd love to, to hear from you ~~and, ~~and love to have your feedback, ~~um,~~ and understand what you're looking to see. Thank you. And I think it's your May twenty-ninth email from me. I have a link to the survey in that email. Dr.

[00:32:39] Convery, have you seen this one? I was just gonna tell you the link is in our email Okay. ~~It's, ~~it's in the, not the one I sent out today, but- ~~Uh-huh ~~... the previous. The link is in there, and I have that deadline of June 12th. Yes. On the call. Correct. Yes. Yes, ma'am. Okay. All right. Thank you so much, Keonna.[00:33:00] 

[00:33:06] Last but not least

[00:33:15] Good evening, everyone. I promise you that I think the meeting's supposed to be at seven o'clock, and we're twenty minutes over, so I'm gonna be sixty seconds, and then I'm gonna get out of here with a smile. ~~Uh, ~~my name is John Hennessey. ~~Uh, ~~so I wanna repeat the, ~~um,~~ the bullet points. Pumping station in Jolton, ~~uh,~~ was up-upgraded, I think Of the Land Can Unit.

[00:33:34] Is that right? ~~Uh, ~~about a year and a half ago. Right now they are working on the new force main that's going up, ~~uh,~~ towards Joleton. I think it goes down White Street to, what is it called? Devil's Elbow or something like that. So they are-- That is currently in construction right now. I don't know what percentage, ~~uh,~~ it is from being completed, but it is actually, ~~um,~~ being worked on right now.

[00:33:53] ~~Um, ~~was there any-- I'm gonna open it up right now, any specifics that you have for me? 'Cause, ~~uh, you, you know, ~~your council lady, she called me fifteen minutes before the meeting [00:34:00] started- No. -and said the meeting

[00:34:05] was on. Wait, hold on. ~~I mean, ~~I'm sorry, twenty minutes. Thank you. Twenty minutes. But I'm gonna be here. If she called me ten minutes, I'm gonna still be here just so y'all know.

[00:34:13] Do you, ~~like, um, ~~Mr. Honeysucker, do you know, ~~uh,~~ the Earthman Fork Rehabilitation, is that the same thing, ~~uh,~~ along the Earthman Fork Rehabilitation that's happening along-- ~~It's, ~~it's a fork of Whites Creek Pike that ~~runs, ~~runs up Whites Creek along Whites Creek Pike towards Joltin. I feel like there was notice that, ~~uh,~~ I don't know if that was septic rehabilitation or creek reha-rehabilitation, but there were crews working in there.

[00:34:35] I didn't know if that was maybe the, ~~uh,~~ pump that you're talking about, or is there something different going on there? Do you know? That's a different, that's a different project that is going on right there. ~~I, ~~I can find out the exact name for you, and you just give me a call, George, and I'll find out.

[00:34:49] Thank you. And I do apologize for not having that information. No, not a problem. The-- I guess there was a pump house going in the forty-six or forty-seven hundred block of Whites Creek Pike. That's-- Is that maybe the Joltin station feed? No. That, that [00:35:00] one was-- It-- I don't know if you remember three years ago, it blew out.

[00:35:04] ~~Uh, ~~that one had blown out, ~~uh,~~ severely in a severe way and flooded some properties next to it, and it's just upgrading infrastructure right there. ~~That, ~~that pump station needed some upgrades, and they had to go in and do some work on that. Thank you. ~~Uh, ~~I believe that the pump, the upgraded pump station was originally planned to go there next to what's known as the ~~Blue, ~~Blue Hills Farm, which is historic, and the subsequent plans ended up buying a home across the street and putting them on that site.

[00:35:27] So thank you for that change. Yes, sir. And while the next person is asking, if there's ever any questions, you all know I'm very accessible, and I think I'm one of the most accessible people in this city. You call me on my cell phone. ~~You know, ~~text me or email me at john.honeysucker@ nashville.gov, and I will get you a response within twenty-four to forty-eight hours.

[00:35:47] Okay. Could you repeat that email again? It's J-O-H-N dot H-O-N-E-Y-S-U-C-K-E-R@ nashville.gov. And do you [00:36:00] handle, ~~like,~~ those cold water drains, the culverts, and stuff like that? I can tie into that. ~~I'm, ~~I'm associated with it, yes, ma'am. Okay. Seven. I've had some issues on my street- Yes, ma'am ... and informed one of the supervisors, and just I would like to discuss the- And I was-- ~~As, ~~as when you send me an email, please copy the councilman on there.

[00:36:18] Please copy the councilman on there. Accountability is big for me. ~~Uh, ~~and when the teams, different divisions within Metro Water, they don't respond in a timely manner, I take that very seriously. So please keep the councilman on that so we keep communication and accountability where they lie. Can you update on the sewer crossing Riley?

[00:36:36] I cannot 'cause I don't know anything about it. You don't know anything about it? But I will be more than happy to find out. Okay. Thank you. Thank you. And I appreciate you coming. I did not initially ask Metro Water to come out. I was trying to deal with the planning department and, ~~um,~~ Mr. Greg Withers told me, he said, "You probably need somebody from Water as [00:37:00] well, because they'll wanna know about the sewer lines or whatever."

[00:37:03] So it was... It wasn't twenty minutes. But it was... And I appreciate you coming. It was today. But I'm fine with having another meeting where I, ~~you know, ~~where we invite Metro Water out, ~~um,~~ to come address you guys. And another reason this was an odd Thursday, I realize you all ~~do, ~~do what you normally for Thursday.

[00:37:23] When ~~I asked him, ~~I asked him, "Whatever day you have available in June, I will make it work." So we agreed on this day, and that's why we here. That's why it's not the fourth Thursday in June. So I was just... I wanted to be able to, whenever they were available, I knew we could probably make ourselves available.

[00:37:43] Yes, sir. Please email me that information, ~~uh,~~ or, and copy the council- Yes, sir. -and I'll get you an answer. Appreciate you. Thank you. So again, thank you for coming. ~~Uh, ~~we had conversations with Scott Otter, and Sunker, you're gonna have to address this specifically 'cause you were involved in these conversations, very up down.[00:38:00] 

[00:38:00] Two or three of them about process, and I'm glad we've got a fighting in Metro Water here. We suggested in these meetings that we alter the process that rather than a developer coming just to Metro Water and saying, "Hey, give us a letter and let us run with it." That before you do that, you need to go through planning first and see if it's compatible with the policies.

[00:38:27] And then if planning says, "Yes, it's compatible with the policy," you get the letter that says you can run with it. To my knowledge, we never, Sunker, to my knowledge, ~~uh,~~ we had these discussions three years ago, and we're ~~still, ~~still ~~sort of ~~hanging, right? ~~When, ~~when you say... I want to clearly define what you're saying.

[00:38:47] Yes. You said you go from, you'll ask planning for a letter. What letter are you referring to? So when a developer comes in and says, "We want to do a project." So you're saying a capacity letter. Capacity. [00:39:00] Okay. Now that has nothing to do with planning or any other department. That's just a due diligence that a person would have to do to request capacity through the rightful department, which would be Metro Water.

[00:39:12] They don't have to go to planning, and codes, and everyone else. That's something that we do, and we have engineers that do modeling for those areas to determine, make a determination if there's capacity available that can be brought on sewer. I think that completely answers that. Speak up.

[00:39:34] ~~I, ~~I think the problem became that w-w-what we ran into is that in different projects, a developer would come in and take the capacity letter and wave it around as if it was some kind of permission that their whole project was good, when in fact, my understanding is the only thing the capacity letter did was say, "If you were to build a sixty-unit apartment building here, there would be [00:40:00] available water and sewer."

[00:40:01] Right? So-- But to avoid the confusion of that, our suggestion to Mr. Potter was, since that is part of one of the things that planning staff would consider if they're looking at a project, to simply send the letter to planning, not through the developer And I don't know whether or not that change ever happens.

[00:40:26] ~~So, ~~so that change does not happen. ~~Uh, ~~again, if, ~~uh,~~ if someone comes in and requests capacity and even ~~pay, ~~pay for a certain percentage of that capacity, then it's theirs. It's, ~~it,~~ it's theirs. Now, how they take that letter and wave it around, that's out of our control. ~~I mean, ~~that's-- ~~I mean, ~~that does not guarantee that the project is approved.

[00:40:48] That's only focused on the capacity, period. Okay? That has nothing to do with, "Hey, has this, ~~uh,~~ does, that does not say approved." That letter, you cannot walk into planning and say, "Hey, I [00:41:00] got a capacity. You better approve this." It doesn't work that way. It doesn't work. This is just part of ~~the, ~~the, the due diligence process of getting something approved.

[00:41:09] It's just step by steps. ~~I, ~~I understand that, but the way it is often used is in a community like this, they're waving it. "Oh, we can go on the metro, ~~da,~~ da, ~~da, ~~da." It seems to us that it's, it-- simpler just to have you all tell planning, "Yes, ~~if,~~ if these people got this project going, we would have capacity if it

[00:41:31] was approved." And I totally understand what you're saying. Okay. So I'm gonna just say this to the whole room. A capacity letter is only for getting, ~~uh,~~ water and sewer, for whichever one they request. That does not approve a project at all. It has no validation to that. It's just for the water and sewer capacity.

[00:41:48] It does not, and Lucas will tell you this, it does not say a project is approved through planning. But I understand what you're saying because I've seen it done. I've seen it done.[00:42:00] 

[00:42:04] So what they're saying is that water's not gonna do you any good if you can't build what you're wanting to build. So to get the water capacity, but you're not allowed to build the house, it's ~~kind of ~~like, why pay the money for the water capacity if you're not allowed to build the house? So is there a way, whether it has to go through council, that the process can be switched to say, you have to get approved for the zoning or whatever to build the house, then you...

[00:42:30] It's like putting the cart, ~~you know, ~~before the horse. ~~So, you know, ~~so to say one process will take place first before you can even get to the second. I think that's what they're trying to say is that do one first, and you have to go through step one first, then you can get the second step. And is there a way, maybe through council, that it can happen, or maybe the person who goes to the department can make it happen?

[00:42:56] Rules like that would probably have to be changed through council. ~~I, ~~I, I'll give you another example. [00:43:00] If I'm going to buy a year's property, I'm gonna-- before I buy a year's property, one of the things, if I know I wanna build on it, I'm gonna check to see if it's, it has capacity. Now, ~~I,~~ I, I'm buying it with the intent of wanting to build, but if I don't check in advance to see if it will be able to have sewer or water capacity, then I don't need to buy it.

[00:43:24] So that's part of doing due diligence. That's what I was saying. But to your point, that would be a council matter.

[00:43:36] Absolutely. ~~I mean, ~~that, ~~that's,~~ that's it in a nutshell. ~~We, ~~we know how to dance, but we know how to dance, but it's- Separate from the water capacity letters, ~~uh,~~ grading permits have been a problem where ~~a, ~~a, a developer will get a grading permit to build a horse farm at six hundred feet elevation and spend five years filling it in, and then decide he's not gonna build a horse farm anymore.

[00:43:58] But ~~he got, ~~he got the permit, [00:44:00] and next thing ~~you know, ~~we got a landfill. St- Step, repeat, step, repeat, step, repeat. Now we've got all these landfills that are happening. Is there any-- Stormwater, this may be one of those instances where instead of Stormwater giving them a permit, send them to planning and make sure that ~~it, ~~it complies with the policy.

[00:44:17] Let me tell you, ~~that one, ~~that one right there is a real... For the ones that live in Scottsville- Yep. -or down at-- ~~Well, ~~not down in Scottsville. It's, we just had a meeting, ~~uh,~~ with RFV at, ~~uh,~~ I forgot, but two months ago or something down at the council chamber. That's one of the things that, that we're really working on right now.

[00:44:32] ~~Uh, ~~and sadly, you guys can help me on this. I think it was a part of that policy was, ~~uh,~~ all you have to have is two chickens and a duck or something like that. You know what I'm talking about. ~~No, ~~no, I'm serious. ~~I'm, ~~I'm serious. ~~They, ~~they will tell you, ~~I'm,~~ I'm very serious. Just have two chickens on there, and then you fall under that agricultural ex-exemption.

[00:44:51] And guess what? You can do all those things on there, and there's nothing we can do about it. And these guys will tell you, this-- I'm not joking. It sounds funny, but people will do [00:45:00] that. And then that's when you see all the trucks coming in and up and down the road and up for fifty, for a dollar, for fifty dollars a load, for a hundred dollars a load.

[00:45:07] And you got a hundred and fifty trucks running down a day. So to your point, that's an ongoing battle that you, these two gentlemen have been battling with, and I think we're making some progress, ~~I guess, ~~with the communication side. I guess you all can agree with me on that. But ~~it's, ~~it's an ongoing battle.

[00:45:25] ~~And, ~~and for me to sit up here and say I have a final answer for you, I don't. I'm not gonna-- I'm not even, I'm not even gonna guess or speculate. It's an ongoing process. Thank you. ~~Uh, ~~will you just list your mobile work phone number too? I know you gave your email, but- My cell number is six one five nine four eight zero one one five

[00:45:48] Thank you. I'm gonna get one last question, then I'm gonna eat. Yeah,

[00:45:57] we do have some pizza right there. But I'm going to get a piece on my way out. Thank you. Any [00:46:00] more questions? Thank you so much for coming out. Oh, thank you. You're the very last

[00:46:19] Go ahead. The question's about, ~~uh,~~ war of words

[00:46:25] Yes, ~~it's,~~ it's a little different when someone asks for a water flow or sewer acceptance prior to planning. But planning cost, and sorry, my name is Kyle, it's, ~~uh,~~ Solberg. I deal with large tracts of land. Planning cost for me to go get an engineer, whatever the case may be, ~~uh,~~ some of my guys in Lenore, it costs us ten thousand to ~~get to, ~~get to that planning department.

[00:46:48] But water is free. I can see what can be allowed. It's called get assignments. So what can be, ~~you know, ~~shifted in and out without disturbing the city as well as sewer. So we're [00:47:00] gonna take care of the free part first before I give you ten thousand, and then I go back and the free part says no, I'm not getting anything for what I just, ~~you know, ~~acquired for.

[00:47:08] Now, I heard somebody ask about, ~~uh,~~ a trust or something like that. I had an answer in my head, but property value itself, when you have stimulations on your property, believe it or not, yes, it's gonna get affected. 'Cause if you're gonna sell me something and I can't build what I want on it, the value is gonna go down, as simple as that.

[00:47:34] But if you sell me something that's zoned R-six and I can put six thou... ~~you know, uh, ~~six thousand square feet, and I can put a home or whatever the case may be, there's no stimulations, then it's gonna go up. But if you got any stimulation on your lands where you sign this or agree to this, now you're telling me what I can't do.

[00:47:52] And as a people of America, you want to do what you want. So if you tell me I can't do something, it's no longer worth four hundred thousand. I [00:48:00] may give you a hundred now. So be careful when you put these stimulations on your property itself for the long haul. ~~Uh, ~~are you gonna wanna keep this forever? Are you gonna have a legacy to leave it to or whatever the case may be?

[00:48:13] ~~Uh, ~~your grandchildren or whatever the case may be, they may not have to do anything 'cause you put stimulations on it. So when you sign these things or whatever the case may be, just think about the long haul and am I gonna move it forward in four years? ~~Well, ~~now I gotta get rid of ~~this, ~~this stimulation I put on there, and it's gonna...

[00:48:30] that lawyer's gonna cost you a pretty penny to take it off. So ~~it, ~~it, it's tricky with it. I deal with some large tracts and trusts and whatever the case may be, but, ~~you know, ~~as a lawyer for everything, it's ~~like, well, ~~who pays?

[00:48:42] I hope that answers some of the questions. ~~You know, ~~the trust part and all that, and it's valuable as the same seventy-five acres next door. Yes, without stipulations. No, with stipulations. For the water thing, yes, I'm gonna go do the three-part first, because if they can handle sixty-five homes, then I'm gonna submit the plan at sixty-five homes.[00:49:00] 

[00:49:01] But if we can't hold that, and I go do sixty-five homes, and it costs me ten grand, they tell me no at the water, then we build seven. So I hope that answers some of the questions. So with that being said, as the church say amen, but I'm gonna say good night. It's the council lady's meeting, so ~~I'm, ~~I'm leaving.

[00:49:21] I appreciate you all. Thank you all for coming out. I appreciate it. I think I'll see you in a few weeks. ~~I, ~~I do still plan on having... You'll get the email. All right. Thank you